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Do SMGs need a nerf?  

77 members have voted

  1. 1. Do SMGs need a nerf?

    • Yes - Across the board
      14
    • Only UMP
      9
    • No, they're fine
      54


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Posted (edited)

IMO, SMGs (especially the UMP) are a bit too powerful now. They shoot like lasers and the UMP only does 10% less damage than the M4. The weapon is a beast. I think that there should be a nerf and it can be accomplished in one of three  ways.

 

1) Drop damage across the board on SMGs.

2) Make SMGs do less damage as you go up the armor chain. 

3) Make the damage drop off over distance occur more quickly so that SMGs can't be used as effectively in medium range combat.


For #2, The way the game is currently set up, the drop off for each level of armor is identical regardless of which type of armor the enemy is wearing. Realistically a 9mm round would do nothing against real military armor. See the North Hollywood Bank Shootout from 1997 for an example of how that would turn out. Granted, we don't want SMGs to be useless against military armor otherwise they'd be a waste against anyone who has good armor. However, you could make the drop off for each tier higher vs. the higher caliber rounds.

 

#3 also makes sense since the SMGs would have their current lethality from extremely close ranges, but be much less effective beyond those very short ranges.

 

 

Edited by Whiplash27

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nerf for sure! smg are destroying from 100+ meters out! had a rough night with my ARs vs smgs. lost every fight over 100m. i think they are a bit over board. no reason to even carry an AR anymore!

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I think they are probably fine but they should un-nerf ARs a bit.

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Posted (edited)

My fix to weapons in general is this:

 

Keep the recoil pattern we see now, but with exponential curve above 5-6 bullets. 

 

This means the spray would be as easy as it is now, but if you can't kill anyone through those first bullets, then expect to loose control of the spray as you continue on. 

 

Right now, spraying the UMP for example is too easy. You can pinpoint and perfectly fine follow a moving target with a 40 bullet burst. This change would require people to restart their burst after 5-6 bullets instead, and we increase survivability to players who move well under fire. 

 

Edited by Ngonmesh
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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Ngonmesh said:

My fix to weapons in general is this:

 

Keep the recoil pattern we see now, but with exponential curve above 5-6 bullets. 

 

This means the spray would be as easy as it is now, but if you can't kill anyone through those first bullets, then expect to loose control of the spray as you continue on. 

 

I believe something like this already exists for the 7.62 weapons (based on the latest wackyjacky video, although at much more than 6 shots), but it doesn't seem like it's set so high that recoil becomes uncontrollable.

Edited by Whiplash27

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Whiplash27 said:

I believe something like this already exists for the 7.62 weapons (based on the latest wackyjacky video, although at much more than 6 shots), but it doesn't seem like it's set so high that recoil becomes uncontrollable.

The only effect I see where this is in action is when they use the lightweight grip. 

Introduce that effect throughout the board, and make gunplay harder is my resolution to balance. 

 

The end goal really should be that no gun should be able to be controllable throughout a 40 bullet spray. 

 

"Spray N Pray" should be viable for that, for close combat. Not above 20 meters. Here we should use auto to control short bursts instead. 

 

 

Edited by Ngonmesh

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4 minutes ago, Ngonmesh said:

The only effect I see where this is in action is when they use the lightweight grip. 

Introduce that effect throughout the board, and make gunplay harder is my resolution to balance. 

 

The end goal really should be that no gun should be able to be controllable throughout a 40 bullet spray. 

 

"Spray N Pray" should be viable for that, for close combat. Not above 20 meters. Here we should use auto to control short bursts instead. 

 

 

 

Yeah, no fun allowed!  Down with fun!

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ARs has more dps

ARs has more range

ARs has more bullet velocity

ARs has less bullet drops

That makes ARs are more effective at close range and long range as soon as you control them. 

 

So what are you talking about?? 

SMGs are good only in close range and better control as it should be. And no matter what kind of west you have wear it can penetrate in close range. 

 

I'm really bored to see so many whining players around who talk no sense

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9 minutes ago, BANG_YOURE_DEAD said:

 

Yeah, no fun allowed!  Down with fun!

I think we have different definitions of "fun". 

 

Being hendheld in a game to get kills isn't my idea of fun. 

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when will people stop yelling for Nerf's? There will ALWAYS be a best weapon - constantly nerfing things is counter productive. What we need is stability for a while

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Posted (edited)

Leave the sMG's alone. Bring back the pre update 12 AR's and level 3 helmet spawns. Get good.

Edited by won slow truck
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Just now, GrumpyOldMan said:

when will people stop yelling for Nerf's? There will ALWAYS be a best weapon - constantly nerfing things is counter productive. What we need is stability for a while

 

What we need is a proper balance. I think patch #12 got us a lot closer to that point, but there need to be a few tweaks. I'd rather just get it right and then have it permanently set vs. playing with it, leaving it for a few months, then playing with it again, over and over again. Even Shroud is saying that the SMGs need a nerf

 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Whiplash27 said:

 

What we need is a proper balance.

Balanced is based on opinion. Therefor there is no such best way. A lot of us were fine with the M4 meta but people cried. They cried about ak too.

The dev's will do what they want. They have been. They will continue. I have yet to see where they get their feed back from. It isnt here.

Shroud although the best IMO, has no more say/worth on opinion as anyone else.

Edited by won slow truck

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1 минуту назад, won slow truck сказал:

Shroud although the best IMO, has no more say/worth on opinion as anyone else.

The fact that he is the best (quite objectively) does mean that his opinion worth more. 

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7 minutes ago, won slow truck said:

Leave the sMG's alone. Bring back the pre update 12 AR's and level 3 helmet spawns. Get good.

 

I liked the previous meta a lot more too. Patch 12 just sucks for me and I barely want to play anymore.  Maybe I'm getting tired of PUBG in general but my enjoyment level took a nosedive after patch 12 hit. 

 

The level 3 helmet change made no sense, it seems they only wanted to placate butthurt streamers.  I totally benefit from the change because I love the K98 but I still think it was a stupid change. 

 

SMG's really didn't need any major buffs, they were already stronger than ARs at close range before.

 

ARs really didn't need such a massive nerf.  They behave a lot more like ARs in CS:GO which I think they were going for, but they're a lot less fun to use now too. 

 

Patch 12 should have been minor tweaks not this swamp creature they built. 

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4 minutes ago, won slow truck said:

Balanced is based on opinion. Therefor there is no such best way. A lot of us were fine with the M4 meta but people cried. They cried about ak too.

The dev's will do what they want. They have been. They will continue. I have yet to see where they get their feed back from. It isnt here.

Shroud although the best IMO, has no more say/worth on opinion as anyone else.


Someone's opinion has to be worth more. I'll take the guy who's extremely good (maybe even the best player in the game), has extensive FPS competition experience, plays this game as his job (essentially), and is making his comments based on the fact that the weapon is too easy for him to dominate with rather than being frustrated by being killed by it (like most would) vs. some random nobody player. 

 

The same goes for any field really. Someone who is highly experienced and knowledgeable has a more worthy opinion than someone who is not.

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19 minutes ago, Whiplash27 said:

 

What we need is a proper balance. I think patch #12 got us a lot closer to that point, but there need to be a few tweaks. I'd rather just get it right and then have it permanently set vs. playing with it, leaving it for a few months, then playing with it again, over and over again. Even Shroud is saying that the SMGs need a nerf

 

 

"Even" Shroud? The man with the one of the best reactions, aim and recoil control in the world is one to listen to? 

Honestly this far Ive been in plenty situations I have lost with UMP/Vector where I wished I had an AK or a 5.56mm. I dont even see many people using them. The times Ive tried it is the times there is no ammo left.

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1 minute ago, Wzn said:

 

"Even" Shroud? The man with the one of the best reactions, aim and recoil control in the world is one to listen to? 

Why not? If you had a disease would you take the opinion of a nurse or a doctor? How about an average doctor or the best doctor in the world?

Shroud plays it like 8 hours per day and knows the game inside and out. Also, if he can pick a weapon like the UMP and say that it's way too easy to use, then it should be a clue that the weapon is OP. 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, ForOne814 said:

The fact that he is the best (quite objectively) does mean that his opinion worth more. 

Again, you are stating your opinion which has more value than other one else here. You fail to see how opinions work.

 

7 minutes ago, Whiplash27 said:


Someone's opinion has to be worth more. I'll take the guy who's extremely good (maybe even the best player in the game), has extensive FPS competition experience, plays this game as his job (essentially), and is making his comments based on the fact that the weapon is too easy for him to dominate with rather than being frustrated by being killed by it (like most would) vs. some random nobody player. 

 

The same goes for any field really. Someone who is highly experienced and knowledgeable has a more worthy opinion than someone who is not.

That's your opinion.

I was always perfectly fine getting destroyed by someone who found a spawn m4 and all i had was an ak pre update 12. I'm perfectly fine with someone having a superior weapon. It means i need to get better and play smarter to obtain that weapon from them.  Others cried and wanted it nerf. They won.

Edited by won slow truck
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1 minute ago, won slow truck said:

Again, you are stating your opinion which has more value than other one else here. You fail to see how opinions work.

 

That's your opinion.

That's not how the world works. In any field you take the opinion of an expert over a layman and you would likely weigh the opinion of the best expert over a middling expert. Shroud has the credentials to be considered an expert when it comes to first person shooters as well as PUBG.

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16 minutes ago, Whiplash27 said:

That's not how the world works. In any field you take the opinion of an expert over a layman and you would likely weigh the opinion of the best expert over a middling expert. Shroud has the credentials to be considered an expert when it comes to first person shooters as well as PUBG.

 

Well, thats not how it works. The game is designed to cater an audience and that is the goal. If the UMP is fine to the great mass, then its good. 

Shroud can pull of headshots with Kar98 at distances we wouldnt even be close, does that mean that the weapon sway is too easy? Well, it is for him but not for the mass.

 

Shroud is pretty vocal about his idea of a game, it should be super realistic and hardcore. Like a simulator, but as he says he knows that most doesnt agree with him and most games doesnt have that as a goal. 

I take the AKM over the Ump in cqc any day of the week, doesnt matter what he says.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Sidartha said:

I think they are probably fine but they should un-nerf ARs a bit.

Yes, I think the same. Although I think that ump could use a little balancing (slight nerf). At least they should make the ARs have less single tap recoil than they have now. They nerfed ARs too much.

Edited by Kraistus

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Wzn said:

 

Well, thats not how it works. The game is designed to cater an audience and that is the goal. If the UMP is fine to the great mass, then its good. 

Shroud can pull of headshots with Kar98 at distances we wouldnt even be close, does that mean that the weapon sway is too easy? Well, it is for him but not for the mass.

 

Shroud is pretty vocal about his idea of a game, it should be super realistic and hardcore. Like a simulator, but as he says he knows that most doesnt agree with him and most games doesnt have that as a goal. 

I take the AKM over the Ump in cqc any day of the week, doesnt matter what he says.

The problem is that everyone has an opinion and most don't post theirs on a message board. If the development team is going to listen to people then some opinions should be weighed more than others. There are some who feel that SMGs are too powerful now, others who feel they are fine. Some who feel that ARs are too weak now, others who feel they are fine. When you have such a huge population of people playing it's hard to come to a consensus on these things. Also game forums tend to attract many people who mainly come to complain. You usually get a smaller core group of regular posters who mainly care about creating the best game, another group who always defends everything that the dev team does no matter how bad it is, and then many others who come in to complain whenever they get killed in a way that they feel was wrong or because they hate the new patch. It's really not the best cross section of players.

 

I've seen way too many games get ruined because developers listened to random people on forums who complained until they got their way while the ignoring the top tier players and then the game ended up getting ruined. I've even heard that Valve has a philosophy for Dota and CS that if you're not a comp player then your opinion is worthless to them. Granted, I say this as not fitting into such a category, but I don't expect the dev team to take action based on my thread, although I'd certainly like a good discussion on the topic.

Edited by Whiplash27

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57 минут назад, won slow truck сказал:

Again, you are stating your opinion which has more value than other one else here. You fail to see how opinions work.

You fail to see that it's not a democracy. Opinions aren't equal, votes are. When they are. 

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2 hours ago, won slow truck said:

Leave the sMG's alone. Bring back the pre update 12 AR's and level 3 helmet spawns. Get good.

 

You forgot something in your post. Let me fix that for you:

leave-smgs-alone.jpg.9ed2f38e60dbe332cc9491d1cb64855d.jpg

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