Jump to content
Seven_Proxies

An issue with using iron sights

Recommended Posts

So as most people have noticed, using iron sights is very hard in the game. It's hard because the weapon and the sights take up a huge amount of your field of vision in your monitor, effectively making you half blind. What's worse is that the weapon covers the target making it harder to see it.

I did some research by picking up and shoulder aimed some rifles here at my home because I could swear that when shooting in real life, you never have the same kind of problem where the weapon feels like it's in the way of your field of vision. Even with one eye closed, I still have a much greater view of my target (even at ranges of 500 meters out) than I could ever hope to have in this game while using iron sights.

I think I've noticed the issue and it has a lot to do with the fact that the game is projected onto a flat screen, and so can't simulate depth perception very well. However, when using iron sights in the game, the weapon is placed in the center of the screen and basically in front of the players "face" which it doesn't in real life.

IRL your weapon rests at your shoulder. You can barely see the stock at all and if I were to compare my own eyesight to a computer screen, most of the weapon ends up at the absolute "bottom" of my "monitor", whereas in the game the weapon take up almost the entire center of the screen.

I tried holding different rifles to achieve the same effect as in the game, and I discovered that you get almost the same obstructed view while holding the weapon with the stock against your face (or rather holding the stock against your mouth) instead of against your shoulder. When I did that, it looked almost exactly the way it does in the game. And it's no wonder why it's so hard to see targets far away when the player characters are holding the weapon stocks against their mouths instead of against their shoulders. ;) (if you have an AR-15 or rifle at home or even just an airsoft replica, then try it out yourself and you'll see exactly what I mean)

I could think of a few suggestions in how to solve this.

The more advanced ones would require artificial blurring and focusing effects with the graphics that could somewhat simulate how the eye behaves when it's focusing on something far away while holding an iron sight parallel to it's field of vision.

A more simple fix would be to make the gun and the sight a bit "see-through" when using the iron sights (not entirely transparent, but at least a bit transluscent) so that even though the gun is there on the screen, the 3D model doesn't entirely obstruct the players view of their target in an unrealistic manner. Granted, translucent guns aren't realistic either, but I feel that in terms of game design an unrealistic feature that helps counterbalance an unrealistic obstruction to the players abilities is more forgivable than simply leaving an unrealistic obstruction in place.

If you want to simulate a life and death game like PUBG, then the goal should make players feel that they retain all the abilities of a human being in real life, instead of feeling like a "pilot" with a clumsy control system inside the head of a human-looking robot doll.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Punisher_1 said:

This is 100% correct. With handguns it is as bad as well. 

Thank you for your input.

I recall from another thread by you that you had a significant numbers of years from army service as well as a lot of shooting from a young age, so it's nice to see that a more frequent practicioner can vouch for my assessment.

My own experience comes from playing a lot of airsoft. No I don't think i'm a "marine" because of it. I do it because it's fun, gives good exercise and the hobby at least provides some useful insights into tactics and "behaviour" in combat situations (how to move, how to coordinate with a group, why it's important to have features like a push-switch on your gunlight instead of a toggle-button and why strobe-lights are really useful, how to clear buildings in CQB-conditions etc.), but I'd never confuse or conflate this hobby with being the same thing as being in the armed forces (although I'd recommend any serviceman to try it out with an open mind and not dismiss it out of hand, because in my community we have a lot of servicemen, former servicemen and veterans who actually consider it to be a lot more useful training since it gives you instant feedback when you mess up and when you do things right, compared to the military exercises available to them in their job)

Aside from that, I've been doing some pistol sports shooting for a couple of years and shooting at the range with hunting rifles (both my parents are hunters). I would like do it a lot more, but sadly the gun laws in my country isn't very permissive and you have to jump through a lot of red tape hoops and stomach a lot of regulations to be able to own and practice with firearms so I just haven't had the time and money to do it more.

But I do think that I can't be labeled as a "wikipedia expert" on firearms or military tactics at least.

With that out of the way, which one of my "fixes" to this issue would you consider more feasible? When I came up with them I tried to be considerate of the game developing limitations that might influence the decision, which is why I offered two possible solutions. The game engine might not permit such necessary blurring effects to simulate focusing and eye-behaviour, which is why I also suggested the "transluscent gun"-option (and also because I think making the weapon translucent in aiming mode might be easier as a "hotfix" to implement compared to the other alternative).

With your real world experience in mind, do you think that having the gun become a little translucent so that it permits you to see the iron sights but also let you see what you're aiming at better to be a satisfactory compromise if the blurring and focusing-approach wouldn't be possible to implement?

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I often find that it takes a rather large "movement" to get the Devs to change anything in the game .... short of a pitchfork and torch mob marching on the office. 

Since I'm not the only guy out here with issues with the shooty sticks / armor mechanics they might get around to taking a look at it one day. Honestly anyone that develops the weapon mechanics and armor in a game should be well versed on the subject with hands on experience that exceeds a brief few hour tip to a local range ( or strictly game based weapons ). If the game revolves around "gun play" it should be the most excellent example of it. After all they are wanting e-sports this game.. at this point it has a rather long way to go.   

Edited by Punisher_1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most FPS games do not use real physics to simulate guns and shooting. What i mean by that is that in FPS, the gun is centered at the middle of the screen, not at your eyes/shoulders like it should be, in your line of sight. Particularly with games which are TPS by default.

It is not that devs don't have experience on that matter, but it would need way more work to develop real physics for the body in order to make the shooting more realistic. Easier to fake it like FPS always did. 

Atm, the only game trying to do it is Star Citizen, and for now it is far from good (we'll see once it's finished), but at least it's ambitious.

I would be in favor of the blurry effect with reduced thickness of the iron sights

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2017-10-04 at 3:00 PM, Franky76 said:

Most FPS games do not use real physics to simulate guns and shooting. What i mean by that is that in FPS, the gun is centered at the middle of the screen, not at your eyes/shoulders like it should be, in your line of sight. Particularly with games which are TPS by default.

It is not that devs don't have experience on that matter, but it would need way more work to develop real physics for the body in order to make the shooting more realistic. Easier to fake it like FPS always did. 

Atm, the only game trying to do it is Star Citizen, and for now it is far from good (we'll see once it's finished), but at least it's ambitious.

I would be in favor of the blurry effect with reduced thickness of the iron sights

I get your point, but it really doesn't excuse the fact that parts of the gun that you wouldn't even see in your field of vision while aiming a real weapon, takes up almost a fourth of the screen while aiming a weapon in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to admit this always bothered me, but I could never find a game doing it right.

Some different types of ironsights (maybe thinner & taller ones) and some camera tweaks could help not obstructing the field of view:

Capture.JPG.6274292971eee6f3fe2c714b7b2903f4.JPG

While your eye actually gets closer to the gun while aiming, zooming the camera on it is part of the problem.

Also,

fps-logic-meme.png

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

fully agree,  Firearms don't make you 45% blind to your surroundings, I think it was done for balancing to make sights more desirable to be honest, and if that's the case it gets the job done, but I'm not a fan of it personally, especially the pistols

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Same thing applies to the red dot and halo sights. The weapon should be translucent to simulate having one eye on the sight and the other free looking.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2017-10-10 at 5:20 PM, Kainan said:

fully agree,  Firearms don't make you 45% blind to your surroundings, I think it was done for balancing to make sights more desirable to be honest, and if that's the case it gets the job done, but I'm not a fan of it personally, especially the pistols

Possibly.

But I still think optics will be desirable and would improve even more if we went with the transluscent weapon approach (that way the optics wouldn't obstruct your view as much as they do AND retain the zoom function which iron sights do not have)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×